Turtle in a Bronze Basin Revisited, by Jean-Luc Achard

Today’s blog is a guest blog by Jean-Luc Achard. It was written in response to the immediately preceding blog, “Turtle in a Bronze Basin.”

The image of the turtle in a bronze basin is quite frequent in Dzogchen texts. For instance, it appears twice in the Zhangzhung Oral Transmission, although illustrating different issues or stages occurring during practice. First, in the mNyam bzhag sgom pa’i lag len, it says:

/rnam rtog ’phro rgod mang pa la/ /rus sbal mkhar gzhong bzhag ltar bcos/ 

“When you have too many scattered and agitated thoughts,

Correct that like placing a turtle in a bronze basin.”

 

The oral explanation given by Yongdzin Rinpoche on that part states that this means to control the body and the breath. By keeping the body straight, the channels are straight, and the winds circulating within them are not blocked anymore. Thus the mind remains fresh and naturally devoid of agitation, becoming scattered, and so forth.*

(*This is from the “main” practice work of the 1st section of the Zhang zhung snyan rgyud concerning “general sections on the View” [lta ba spyi  gcod]. I used the Triten Norbutse edition published ca. 2000 or 2002, at p. 344).  

The second occurrence is in the Commentary on the Twenty-One Seals  of the Zhangzhung Oral Transmission which reads: 

bzhi pa rus sbal mkhar gzhong tshud pa ’dra zhes pas/ snang ba rdzogs (756) pa’i dus su/ thugs rje’i nyag thag de g.yo ’gul med par gnas pa’o/ 

“It is said: ‘Fourthly, they* are similar to a tortoise placed in a bronze basin.’ This means that at the time of the perfection of the visions** the chains of Compassion remain without moving and quivering.”***

(*The third verse shows that this refers to the chains of Compassion (thugs rje nyag thag). **This is the fourth vision of Thögel in the scheme of five visions [snang ba lnga] according to the Zhangzhung Oral Transmission. ***gZer bu’i nyer gcig gi ’grel pa, p. 755.)

 

The image is the same as the previous one but the context is totally different. Here it refers to the fourth of the five visions of Thögel during which the “chains of Compassion” reach a stage of total stabilization. In actual practice, there are in fact more than “chains”, there are Thiglés, archetypal forms, all of them slowly evolving into mandalas, with half-bodies (phyed sku) and then full Buddhas appearing in Thiglés, etc. But here the idea is that when placing a turtle in a basin which is very small (preventing the animal from moving), the tortoise automatically retracts its legs and head and does not move (like the chains of Compassion which do not move anymore at that stage; it is only when they are immobile that mandalas and Bodies start to appear within the Thiglés making up these chains). What is interesting is that this very same image is also used by Shardza Rinpoche in his Treasury of Space and Awareness (dByings rig mdzod, II, p. 301) in which he describes what corresponds to the first vision of the Thögel (this time according to the “standard” scheme in four visions, not five). There he says:

dang po bon nyid mngon sum gyi dus na/ lus rus sbal mkhar gzhong du bcug pa ltar song ba ni rtsa dal bar gnas pa las 'byung ste/ rdzogs pa chen po byed pa dang bral ba'i gzer lus kyi yan lag thebs pa'i byed pa rang sar dag nas byed pa med pa'i ye shes rang byung du shar ba'o/   

“First, at the time of the Vision of Manifest Reality, the fact that the body becomes like (that of) a turtle placed in a bronze basin (implying its immobility) results from leaving the channels at ease: the seal of non-action characterizing Dzogchen is applied on the limbs of the body (so that with the latter) being naturally purified, the Wisdom of non-action arises in a self-occurring manner.”

 

In the Gab pa which as you know is quite older, the image of the turtle is used in a scheme associating View, Meditation, etc., with animals in the following manner: 

—     View (lta ba) is associated with the Garuda (khyung)

—     Conduct (spyod pa) is associated with the lion (seng ge)

—     Samaya (dam tshig) is associated with the swan (ngang mo)

—     Activities (phrin las) are associated with the cuckoo (khu byug), and

—     Meditation (sgom pa) is associated with the turtle (rus sbal).

 

All this actually refers to methods of explanation (bshad thabs) to which “examples” (dpe) are applied (sbyar ba). Shardza (dByings rig mdzod, vol. I, p. 116) states:

sgom pa ni rus sbal rgya mtshor bskums pa ltar bshad de/ rnam rtog gis g.yo ba med par rang gsal du gnas par bstan pa'o

“Meditation is explained to be like a turtle contracting (its limbs) in the ocean, illustrating the fact that one should remain (absorbed) within one’s natural Clarity, without being moved/affected by discursive thoughts.”

 

Later (vol. II, p. 18), he explains that these methods associated with animals make up the “five contemplations” (dgongs pa lnga, another case where one sees dgongs pa cannot be translated as “intention” as it so often is). Regarding the turtle, he says: 

rus sbal bskum thabs kyi dgongs pa zhes bya ba/ sems nyid ye nas g.yo ba med cing ma bcos pa gnas pas/ reg pa dang rkyen gyi tshor ba las 'byung ba'i mtshan ma thams cad 'jom pa'o/

“The so-called ‘Contemplation on the turtle’s manner of contracting (its limbs)’ means that since Mind itself primordially abides without movement and without contrivance, all characteristics arising from contacts and conditioned sensations are subdued.”

 

This means that once this stage of stable contemplation is achieved, one remains naturally in the immutable and non-artificial nature of one’s Mind, just like a turtle naturally retracts its limbs and remains immobile when placed inside a small basin. At that stage, one subjugates any kind of characteristics associated with sensations, contacts, etc., because nothing can actually distract us anymore from one’s contemplative experience.

The tortoise in a small basin and the tortoise retracting its limb are images that one also finds in Nyingma works on Dzogchen (more the first than the second by the way), such as the sGra thal ’gyur commentary (associating the immobility of the turtle to that of the body), the mKha’ ’gro yang tig, etc., down to 20^th century works (for instance, in at least one of Dudjom Rinpoche’s works, one of Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche’s composition, etc.). Further examples could be given.

Response to Jean-Luc (May 28, 2024)

Dan:   Many thanks for sharing so much knowledge, much of it entirely new to me. I am particularly intrigued by the presence of the metaphorical turtle in the Gab-pa, and feel inclined to look into it more before long. 

With all these additional Bon examples, it seems all the more clear that already in the 11th and 12th centuries, three discrete Tibetan traditions — the Bon, Nyingma and Zhijé — were sharing the same four-syllable expression that means ‘turtle in a bronze basin.’ At the same time, it isn’t at all obvious that they mean exactly the same thing by it. The differences may in part be contextual, they may be employing it in different teaching situations. They do share one broadly similar idea, that something or another is, despite itself, getting locked into place and immobilized. The Bon Dzogchen examples are surely looking quite different from the Zhijé in their way of explaining it.

As I personally tend to understand it, the turtle, with its unusual ability to pull its legs as well as its head into its shell, is a natural symbol for the withdrawal of the five senses in meditation, the attention fully internalized. I know of no clear or direct Buddhist or Tibetan justification for this idea in my head. The best I can come up with is a verse from the Bhagavad Gita (ch. 2, v. 58): 

“When like the tortoise which withdraws on all sides its limbs, a man of perfection withdraws his senses at will from sense objects, then his wisdom becomes steady.” 

However, in my Zhijé examples the situation is different, the turtle in the bronze basin does have its head and limbs out (in my understanding, its senses are "out there," aware of external phenomenon) even while its body as a whole is immobilized. It is calm but alert, enjoying the light of the sun, basking in it.

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Jean-Luc’s response (May 28, 2024)

In the Dzogchen sources that I have access to, the turtle in the basin is a metaphor for the immobility of the body but also, as shown above, a very rare reference to the stability of the visions arising during Thögel practice. But, certainly, it seems clear that in other contexts, such as in the Zhijé teachings, it definitely seems to refer to the senses. Your quote from the Gita is in this respect very interesting in this regard. That’s a fascinating find!

As the image was explained by Yongdzin Rinpoche, in the Bön sources that he used and where the expression occurs, it strictly points to the fact that when placed in a small basin a turtle contracts its limbs and head quasi-automatically because it cannot move due the size of the basin itself. In fact, the image is used to illustrate a sign (rtags). Thus, in chapter 16 of Ratna Lingpa’s Tantra of the Abyssal Clarity (Klong gsal gyi rgyud) for instance, it is explained that this image with the turtle is actually a sign that appears during the first vision of Thögel, the Vision of Manifest Reality (chos nyid mngon gsum gyi snang ba). Each of the four visions of Thögel has three signs (one for each of the three doors). Thus, during the Vision of Manifest Reality :

“ — As for the body, it remains without activities,

Like a turtle placed in a bronze basin.”

(lus ni bya byed me pa ru/ ru sbal mkhar gzhong bcug pa ‘dra/).

This is actually the result of the temporary dissolution of the wind of the earth element in the body. At that time, one feels like an immobile statue and prefers not to move at all. Of course, this is especially true during formal sessions. However, even during post-obtainment (rjes thob), the wind of the earth element can temporarily resorb itself,  particularly when one just rests, sitting while doing nothing in particular. This means that its dynamism (rtsal) has entered a year-long process of gradually reaching its exhaustion (like the other elemental winds).

Furthermore, at the beginning of the Gab pa, you’ll find the following reference to the turtle:

|ston pa thugs rje che mnga' ba| |thams cad mkhyen pas de bzhin gsungs| |de las rig pa thabs kyis brgyud| |skal ldan snod bzang 'ga' tsam la| |sems kyi dkyil du phog par bya| |rus sbal rgya mtshor bskums pa bzhin| |phal gyis mthong bar mi 'gyur te| |'di ni gsang ba'i gsang ba'o|

Here it is not associated with the immobility of the body or the senses but rather with the idea of a turtle contracting its limbs in the depths of the ocean and therefore being invisible to ordinary people. It thus illustrates the “secret of the secret”, i.e., the natural state that abides within all beings without the latter being conscious of it.

In the Gab pa rgya cher bshad pa, the line rus sbal rgya mtshor bskum pa bzhin is glossed as follows :

| rus sbal rgya mtsho= zhes pas| dper na rus sbal zhes bya ba'i sems can cig rgya mtsho'i gting na bskums nas 'dug pa de| sus kyang mi mthong ba dang 'dra ste| man ngag 'di yang kun gzhi ma g.yos pa'i klong rgya mtsho dang 'dra ba'i dbyings su| rig pa'i ye shes rus sbal bskum pa bzhin zhog cing...

So it points to an animal lying in the depths of the ocean, with its limbs contracted (bskums) so that it cannot be seen by anybody. The precept (man ngag) that uses this illustration actually means that within the immutable expanse of the Universal Base, the Wisdom of Awareness remains hidden like a turtle in the depths of the ocean... (until it is caused to arise by applying special key points). So this is still another usage of the turtle image.

Turtle in a Bronze Basin

 

... the thoughts of a turtle are turtles ...

If you never kept a turtle as a pet, I don’t recommend it. First and most seriously they are difficult to care for unless you know what you are doing, and largely for this very reason are prone to die a young and untimely death. Another problem is that they often get sick and tired of that terrarium you’ve locked them up in and start scratching nonstop on the walls trying to get out. You wonder if they are just bored or nervous, or in need of a larger living room. The constant scraping noise can be so irritating you could scream and throw a lamp across the room.

But this blog is more about us humans than it is about the challenges of turtle care. Do you ever even imagine that effort itself could, in some circumstances, prove to be an insurmountable impediment to progress? Counterintuitive insight at its best! 

I’m convinced the metaphoric image of the turtle in the bronze basin will be subject of this blog. At least I will try. Wait for the future, as I suppose we have all been doing, and we’ll get there. My primary aim is to persuade you how crucial it is for us to better know in practical terms what futile efforts entail. If I can convince you of this my struggles will not have been in vain. At long last I will be able to give it a rest.*

(*I suppose my further subterranean aim would be to show that there are connections such as this to be seen in the pre-Mongol era between the Bon, Zhijé and Nyingma schools.)

In a selection from one of the primary texts of the early Zhijé tradition containing words of Padampa we once translated as Padampa’s Animal Kingdom, we find these words:

17.  Unable to go anywhere, the turtle in the bronze basin tires itself out.

འགྲོ་བར་མྱི་ནུས་མཁར་ཞོང་ནང་གི་རུལ་རྦལ་ཚི་ཆད་འགྱུར་།། — ZC vol. 1, p. 219.4.

 

The metaphor of the turtle in the bronze basin occurs at least twice in the Padampa Tanjur texts, but curiously in them the emphasis seems to be on how much the turtle in the bronze basin enjoys basking in the sun, and not on how thoroughly trapped it is.  The commentarial text explains Padampa’s precept and, as it often does, gives it an unexpected spin:

17.  “Unable to go...” — If you place a turtle in a bronze basin, it tries to climb out, but at the very first step it loses its footing. Likewise, no matter how high or low something may appear, the mind never moves from its empty nature.  It falls back on it.

འགྲོ་མྱི་ནུས་ཞེས་པ་ནི་། འཁར་གཞོང་དུ་རུ་རྦལ་བཅུག་ན་ཕྱིར་འཛེགས་ཀྱང་ཡང་དང་པོའི་ཤུལ་དུ་འདྲེད་ནས་འོང་། དེ་བཞིན་དུ་འཐོའ་དམན་ཇི་ལྟར་སྣང་ཡང་སེམས་ངོ་བོ་སྟོང་པ་ལས་འགྱུར་བ་མྱེད་དེ་། དེ་ཐོག་ཏུ་འབབས་གསུང་།  — ZC, vol. 1, p. 426.

 

Our concern at the moment, and the very thing that made me return again to this subject, is the single-folio Khyunglung fragment at pp. 142-145 (marked as fol. 3) in the published volume.*

(*For the bibliographical details, refer to the recent blogs on the Four Caches). 

 

At first glance I had thought it might be a Zhijé text, seeing the words meaning ‘From the mouth of Dampa’ (dam pa’i zhal nas) that seemed to suggest it, although it soon turned out to be an illusion. I tried searching in BDRC, and found no matches to the phrases I was trying to check. However, I tried again and found this parallel to the Khyunglung fragment in vol. 121 of The Much Expanded Version of the Oral Scriptures of the Earlier Translations (Snga-’gyur Bka’-ma Shin-tu Rgyas-pa, W1PD100944). In this instance BDRC e-text provides us with no page correspondences (and this is my good excuse for not providing page numbers), although this volume does seem to be a commentary on the Eighty Precepts (Zhal-gdams Brgyad-cu-pa) of Zurchung: 

le'u bdun pa / gdams pa bcu gsum gyi gdams ngag lag len gdams pa ni / gdams pa bcu gsum la / bsgrub pa'i brtson 'grus kyi lcag tu bdag gzhan gyi 'chi ba la brtag / nam mchi nges pa med pas tshe 'di yi bya bzhag thams cad bor thongs / gus pa khyad par can skye bar 'dod pas bla ma'i phyi nang gi yon tan la brtag / skyon rtog spongs / skyon du snang ba de rang snang ma dag pas lan / spyod pa kun dang mthun par 'dod pas gzhan gyi rtsol ba mi dgag / theg pa thams cad rang sa bden pas chos dang grub mtha'i kha 'dzin che / bla ma'i thugs zin pa mi 'gyur bar bya ba'i phyir nyams su len pa drag tu bya / yon tan ma lus pa rang la 'ong / dngos grub myur du thob par 'dod na sdom pa dam tshig ma nyams par bsrung / bsrung mtshams mtha' dag mi dge bcu dang dug lnga rang mtshan la slong bar 'du / chu bo bzhin bcad par.*

(*Compare this to the Khyunglung fragment starting at its folio 3 recto, line 7, and you will see despite all the variant readings that they are the same text all the same.)

I see, too, that Khyunglung, p. 144, line 5 ff. (or fol. 3 verso, line 5) corresponds to section 13 in the English of Zurchungpa’s Testament (its pp. 94-95). The ordering of sections doesn’t seem to be the same in the Khyunglung when compared to later editions of the “same” text. This indicates that a close textual study would be in order. At the moment I cannot safely argue for dependence of one text on the other. A comparative text edition ought to be made, perhaps you would like to give it a try? 

In any case, as you may have suspected by now the Zurchung Eighty does contain the turtle in the bronze basin metaphor even if it may not look like it in the English:

“Cut the stream of the arising of dualistic thoughts and the following after them, taking the example of a tortoise placed on a silver platter.”  (no. 28 on p. 164, see also pp. 292, 346)

I find the Tibetan of it in my physical print volume of the text entitled

Zur-chung Shes-rab-grags-pa'i Gdams-pa Brgyad-cu-pa, Pema Thinley, Sikkim National Press (Gangtok 1999), a booklet in 64 pages not listed in BDRC, at p. 26:

རུས་སྦལ་མཁར་གཞོང་དུ་བཅུག་པའི་དཔེས་མཚོན་ནས། མཚན་མའི་འབྱུང་འཇུག་རྒྱུན་བཅད། 

I go to the trouble to give the Tibetan to convince Tibetan readers that it really does speak of the turtle stuck in a bronze basin, and that the published English translation, as wonderful as it is, is in my estimation slightly off on this particular point. I myself originally wanted to translate brass basin, liking the sound of it, but really, it’s a superior type of brass alloy, and that means some more expensive kind of bronze or bell metal.

To complicate matters necessarily, we find the turtle in the bronze basin in a Bon Dzogchen text of the pre-Mongol era that would need to be brought into a fuller and more adequate discussion. The Bon text I have in mind is Seeing Awareness in its Nakedness (Rig-pa Gcer Mthong), IsIAO Tucci text no. 528, section DA, folio 2 verso, line 6. I would give a quotation, but I no longer have a access to the Tucci manuscript and would need to search it out in one of the published editions of the massive cycle that contains it.

This section DA, according to the published catalog 

Elena De Rossi Filibeck, Catalogue of the Tucci Tibetan Fund in the Library of the IsIAO, Istituto Italiano per l'Africa e l'Oriente (Rome 2003), vol. 2, p. 296.

ought to be a 7-folio manuscript with the title Bsnyan-rgyud Gsal-bar Byed-pa'i Gsal-byed. I had thought I might have made a photo of the page, but no, to find it again I would have to fly back to Rome. That hardly seems likely to happen today. Anyway, I believe it ought to be locatable in a different published version of the cycle, so let me go over to BDRC and see what I can come up with. 

Well, I went there and came up with nothing, because the volume I’ll describe in a flash isn’t listed there:

Snyan-rgyud Gcer-Mthong, “Bonpo oral transmission precepts granted by Srid-pa-rgyal-mo to Bon-zhig Khyung-nag, reproduced from rare manuscript from Bsam-gling Monastery in Dol po,” Tibetan Bonpo Monastic Centre (Dolanji 1972).  

That’s a pity that BDRC didn’t scan it.* You might think I’m lucky to have a IASWR microfiche set that ought to include it, but then I don’t have any fiche reader available to me right now. 

(*Or didn’t scan it yet. Those 1960's-1980's Bon publications from India haven’t mostly been posted online, although they might be in the near future.)

Okay, now I think I can find it. As you may know the catalog of the Bon Katen goes with an index volume, 

Samten G. Karmay and Yasuhiko Nagano, eds., A Catalogue of the New Collection of Bonpo Katen Texts (Bon Studies 4), Senri Ethnological Reports series no. 24, National Museum of Ethnology (Osaka 2001).

and it locates the cycle of Seeing Awareness in Its Nakedness in volume 133 of the 300 (plus) volume set. That set is locatable with the title “Bon-gyi Bka’-brten” in BDRC as no. W30498, and its volume 133 is indeed scanned and made available there. What we find when we view the scans of vol. 133 is what looks very much like a photocopy of the 1972 publication listed above (absent only the added title page, and the Table of Contents that could have come in useful). A telltale sign is the Old Delhi style of the added Arabic numerals.* So we go back to the 1,692-page Osaka catalog and run through the titles it lists for vol. 133. Even if it isn’t exactly Gsal-bar Byed-pa’i Gsal-byed, we do see that part 15 (pp. 265-278, or 7 folios in length) has the title Snyan-rgyud Gsal-byed, which seems promising enough to have a look.

(*How can I tell?  It kind of looks like the numbers were applied with a rubber stamp.)

Could you hear the scratching?  A few hours have passed, and I wish I  could tell you that all those efforts had no result whatsoever. That would have made my point for me. But no, there it is on p. 269, line 4: ru[s] sbal mkhar gzhong du, or, turtle in a bronze basin. Have a look:

Of course, now we have the difficult task of understanding it in its special context, as part of a system of Dzogchen precepts. We’ve barely scratched the surface... Or... Perhaps we’ve scratched enough for one day. It may be time to give it a rest.

Originally from Buzzfeed, I linked it from here:
As you see this is a plastic, and not a bronze basin,
or the outcome would be different.

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A poem by Emily Dickinson

has more of the “well turtle” or turtle-in-a-well in it, even if the turtle is disguised as a mole. The piece as a whole is usually taken to be about 19th-century disenchantment or, to put it in different words, our declining perception of the sacred dimensions of our existence.

1228

So much of Heaven has gone from Earth

That there must be a Heaven

If only to enclose the Saints

To Affidavit given.

The Missionary to the Mole

Must prove there is a Sky

Location doubtless he would plead

But what excuse have I?

Too much of Proof affronts Belief

The Turtle will not try

Unless you leave him - then return

And he has hauled away.

I’m fascinated how in the verse on the mole in a hole we easily perceive the well known Indic metaphor of the well turtle (he finds difficulty believing what he is told about the wider world beyond his ken), while the very next verse seems to have our turtle escaping from an unspecified container. Could she have gotten something from Emerson? But for her, okay, it is quite a different idea, the turtle only tries to get away when you aren’t looking. Then just disappears.

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In John Steinbeck’s Grapes of Wrath, a turtle appears to be a symbol of the family’s struggle for freedom, but here the turtle is in a shirt pocket (or is he crossing the highway?) and not in any basin. And that family is trying to get out of the Dust Bowl where they had been trapped, rather than any metallic basin.

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From Ralph Waldo Emerson’s Natural History of Intellect:

What strength belongs to every plant and animal in nature. The tree or the brook has no duplicity, no pretentiousness, no show. It is, with all its might and main, what it is, and makes one and the same impression and effect at all times. All the thoughts of a turtle are turtles, and of a rabbit, rabbits. But a man is broken and dissipated by the giddiness of his will ; he does not throw himself into his judgments ; his genius leads him one way but ’t is likely his trade or politics in quite another. He rows with one hand and with the other backs water, and does not give to any manner of life the strength of his constitution. Hence the perpetual loss of power and waste of human life. [emphasis added]

I like Emerson’s rowing metaphor that has the boat spinning in circles instead of going ahead. This happens to me a lot, although I hope you are kind enough not to notice.

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The turtle in the bronze basin enjoys the light of the sun.  མཁར་གཞོང་ནང་གི་རུལ་སྦལ་ཉི་མའི་འོད་ལ་དགའ།  mkhar gzhong nang gi rul rbal [~rus sbal] nyi ma’i ’od la dga’.

— Zhijé Collection, vol. 1, p. 268, line 7. The same text is in the Derge Tanjur, no. 2445, with the title Phyag-rgya-chen-po Rin-po-che Brda’i Man-ngag.

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There are some interesting narratives about direct encounters of the early Zur family lineage of the Nyingmapa with practitioners of Bön. For references to the main sources, see Matthew Kapstein, “From Metaphor to Commentary and from Commentary to Catechism: The Formation of a Bon po Scriptural Corpus and Its Authentication,” contained in: Jonathan Silk and Leonard van der Kuijp, eds., From Khyung-lung to Lhasa [=Revue d'Etudes Tibétaines, no. 64, July 2022], pp. 290-306, at p. 291, footnote 4.

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Note: Today’s blog was already promised in an earlier one: https://tibeto-logic.blogspot.com/2024/03/recovered-connections-1-four-caches.html.

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If you have the time to spare, and need some Zen, search the internet for "the goose in the bottle." Use the quote marks in your search for better results, or just do nothing and sit there.

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For a response to this blog by Jean-Luc Achard, look here (by clicking on this sentence!).