tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32671574.post4413143775474303383..comments2024-03-22T14:47:42.501+02:00Comments on Tibeto-logic: The Vajra as Implement, Emblem and SymbolUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger22125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32671574.post-77312698850953021362017-11-16T23:40:25.715+02:002017-11-16T23:40:25.715+02:00Your little print with the various implements is c...Your little print with the various implements is carried secretly upon the person of those who have received an empowerment that has, as one of its requisites, the samaya-bound requisite to carry such implements at all times.Editorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17607443504553459238noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32671574.post-18099483859518984032017-08-30T14:36:36.915+03:002017-08-30T14:36:36.915+03:00Dear Anonymous, Your comment appeared in my mailbo...Dear Anonymous, Your comment appeared in my mailbox today, but as it looks like 90% unintelligible 'code' I decided not to share it here. A blogger can't be too careful these days. But thanks for writing. Write again. Yours, D.Danhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10453904366382251766noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32671574.post-27583318407382671812012-05-25T11:36:07.385+03:002012-05-25T11:36:07.385+03:00I think some readers, meaning those who are not Fr...I think some readers, meaning those who are not Francophobes, will find interesting Janus' blog on the Vajra - Keraunos connection. It's here:<br /><br />http://hridayartha.blogspot.com/2012/05/le-feu-celeste.htmlDanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10453904366382251766noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32671574.post-74144671232248622542012-04-17T20:24:41.067+03:002012-04-17T20:24:41.067+03:00Thank you for the tip, Anonymous. For other curio...Thank you for the tip, Anonymous. For other curious readers, I'll just give the direct link to <a href="http://web.rgzm.de/fileadmin/gruppen/rgzm/2011/Publikationen/Jb_2009_Zusammenfassungen.PDF" rel="nofollow">the PDF that contains the abstracts</a> (in three languages!).<br />Yours,<br />DDanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10453904366382251766noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32671574.post-878383478794986342012-04-17T14:27:12.258+03:002012-04-17T14:27:12.258+03:00Regarding the relationship between the anthropomor...Regarding the relationship between the anthropomorphic figures and the Vajra please see the publication in Jahrbuch des Römisch-Germanischen Zentralmuseums Mainz, 56. Jahrgang 2009, pp. 39-80 (Abstract p.80, also in Internet). <br />YoursAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32671574.post-66457864916578531932012-04-06T18:15:29.014+03:002012-04-06T18:15:29.014+03:00Dear Dan,
All is well, thank you. I did not chec...Dear Dan, <br /><br />All is well, thank you. I did not check Negi, and it does not seem impossible at all that hastacihna is legit. When I grep-ped for these expressions it always came up like [left/right]+hasta+cihna [+usually followed by mudrā], so I - perhaps hastily - dismissed it. <br /><br />The proposed study of the vajra sounds mouthwatering, I really hope it can be done some day. When you find the time. <br /><br />I'm rambling here, but one interesting etymology (well, nirukti/nirvacana) is given by Bhavabhaṭṭa in his commentary to the Catuṣpīṭha: bahavo ramanta aneneti vajram ("vajra - for many take delight in it", lit. with it). Which very much seems to suggest that good old Bhavabhaṭṭa is an Easterner: bajra, right? <br /><br />āyudhapūjā: on a trip some time ago I saw a Tamil driver do this to his bus. We were joking that hopefully he does not intend to use it as a weapon that day. <br /><br />Anyhow, random thoughts, as usual. And may all those good things come your way, too.<br /><br />Yours,<br /><br />PDSzPDSzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14028181531501748621noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32671574.post-87380976271081632172012-04-06T16:45:27.309+03:002012-04-06T16:45:27.309+03:00Hello Dan and PDSz,
I see phyag mtshan, or emblem...Hello Dan and PDSz,<br /><br />I see phyag mtshan, or emblems, as attributes, at least that is how they are most often translated into French (in a tantric context). Attributes of the deity in all meanings of the words. Essential caracteristics of a substance. In this case, caracteristic hand objects, caracterising the deity's attributes. <br /><br />A symbol, can represent both substance (deity) and attributes. Yes, a symbol is a 'stand-in' for something. It is a sign by which something is recognised. I think in many cases a seal (mudraa, phyag rgya) is simply a symbol too. The seal of a king is the symbol of the king, or the king's authority. For me the image of a seal, an imprint in wax or whatever, carries unnecessary connotations. Translating mudraa as symbol may be more to the point. <br /><br />F. De Saussure observes that a symbol differs from a linguistic sign in that the relationship between signifier and signified isn't the same. A symbol can't be replaced by any signifier. E.g. the scales as a symbol for justice.<br /><br />JoyJanushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13818341476501505611noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32671574.post-23129218040969430542012-04-06T11:13:13.068+03:002012-04-06T11:13:13.068+03:00Dear PSz,
Nice hearing from you. How is every li...Dear PSz,<br /><br />Nice hearing from you. How is every little thing? Normally these days I would just translate it as 'emblem' without fussing about the meanings of each of the syllables. I think emblem works very finely in contexts of iconographic description... in most contexts really (and they can stand by themselves without being held by anyone). Have you noticed that the Negi Tibetan-Sanskrit dictionary, p. 3546, supplies an occurrence of hastacihna for phyag-mtshan. Wouldn't this argue against the phyag element being a Tibetan honorific former? <br /><br />One road not taken, among many: I think it may have been more fun and instructive for us to wonder about the etymology of the Greek word symbolon, that apparently has something to do with two things coming together, or one thing being a 'token' or ticket or pawn for another, even a tally stick, even two halves of a broken bone or coin that could later be joined together... (all this according to my Liddell & Scott's). That gives us something to think about. Is a symbol a 'stand-in' for something else? Well, yes, it would seem so, given this etymological origin...<br /><br />Cheers, wealth and good health!<br /><br />Yours,<br />DDanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10453904366382251766noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32671574.post-62813830609294940022012-04-06T01:18:57.380+03:002012-04-06T01:18:57.380+03:00Hi Dan,
Very much looking forward to the continu...Hi Dan, <br /><br />Very much looking forward to the continuation! I was wondering about "chagtsen (phyag-mtshan), literally, ‘hand-signs’ (or perhaps more simply ‘marks’)". Does this not more usually render cihna, rather than āyudha (mtshon cha)? If so, could phyag be an honorific prefix? In other words, my vote is with the second option, `marks' or `emblem'.<br /><br />Yours,<br /><br />PDSzAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32671574.post-27753681944491870352012-04-05T13:01:40.160+03:002012-04-05T13:01:40.160+03:00paper sent by email. all the best, m.a.p.paper sent by email. all the best, m.a.p.massimiliano a. polichettihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08725421491076859583noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32671574.post-34528020531165592912012-04-04T16:39:06.592+03:002012-04-04T16:39:06.592+03:00Caro Massimiliano!
Mille grazie! I'd so much...Caro Massimiliano!<br /><br />Mille grazie! I'd so much love to see it. I don't suppose there would be any chance of a link to a PDF? Would there? Per piacere?<br /><br />Yours,<br />DDanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10453904366382251766noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32671574.post-13573085647267657622012-04-04T15:14:06.263+03:002012-04-04T15:14:06.263+03:00interesting article! let me have the ground to try...interesting article! let me have the ground to try to contribute here to the bibliography with a reference to a paper of mine: M.A. Polichetti, "Tantra in Asylum - the Veiovis of Monterazzano’s thunderbolt: harbinger of the Indian tantric vajra?", in South Asian Archaelogy 2007 - Proceedings of SAA in Ravenna, Italy, July 2007 - Vol. II, Historic Periods, Oxford, pp. 255-257. all the best, m.a.p.massimiliano a. polichettihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08725421491076859583noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32671574.post-24796429569830976452012-04-04T01:29:46.381+03:002012-04-04T01:29:46.381+03:00Dear D,
Thanks for fixing me. Whether it's t...Dear D,<br /><br />Thanks for fixing me. Whether it's the Skt. or the Tibetan, it's not fresh milk. I'll switch it to curd in the morning. Or is that sour curdled milk? All yoghurt is drinkable unless you add thickener, isn't it?<br /><br />Yours,<br />D.Danhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10453904366382251766noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32671574.post-13588732651026583242012-04-04T00:40:24.879+03:002012-04-04T00:40:24.879+03:00Dear Dan,
A great article! Just by the way, I was...Dear Dan,<br /><br />A great article! Just by the way, I was wondering if Drang-srong Zho-’thung is a milk-drinking or curd/yoghurt-eating sage. Of course, in English one cannot “drink” curd/yoghurt, can one? In Tibetan no problem. <br /><br />Best,<br />D.Dorji Wangchuk (Kuliśeśvara)https://www.blogger.com/profile/02042613761261634658noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32671574.post-74970975189707373202012-04-03T17:12:35.643+03:002012-04-03T17:12:35.643+03:00I better stop here then. If Mrs Janus finds out sh...I better stop here then. If Mrs Janus finds out she has been exposed on the Internet in yoga postures hurling kitchen implements, she may trample me under her feet and we may end up on Tibeto-logic listed as contemporary expressions of ancient sacred symbols.<br /><br />JoyJanushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13818341476501505611noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32671574.post-6399537026545537052012-04-03T15:00:55.835+03:002012-04-03T15:00:55.835+03:00Dear T-T,
I want to add that, once they get to th...Dear T-T,<br /><br />I want to add that, once they get to the PDF of Parpola's article via the link, they ought to scroll down to page 25. I should have known that it was Proto-Finno-Ugrian, but I have this tendency to neglect the obvious. I wanted to answer Joy's comment, but I think I ought to be a little worried about what his wife will have to say... In general I think all physical exercise regimens are done with the aim of being better able to fight or hunt. And well, the 'striding Zeus' is such an obvious example of a 'hurling' posture likely to be taken by anyone who is about to throw something at someone. So, this said, I'd say J. had better watch out! The classical implement in certain sorts of domestic disputes in the U.S. has always been the rolling pin, which does bear a fair resemblance to what we see here.<br /><br />Yours,<br />D.Danhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10453904366382251766noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32671574.post-46080510230345798552012-04-03T14:25:36.462+03:002012-04-03T14:25:36.462+03:00Dan-lags!
On the origins of the idea of the "...Dan-lags!<br />On the origins of the idea of the "vajra", a short but, perhaps, 'etymologically' interesting statement can be found in this article: http://www.helsinki.fi/~aparpola/jis16-17.pdf The opening verse, btw, is nice, too!<br />Yours,<br />T-TAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32671574.post-64034972779744376212012-04-03T11:49:43.098+03:002012-04-03T11:49:43.098+03:00We'll get to the prongs next time. But I hope...We'll get to the prongs next time. But I hope nobody will expect me to offer full coverage or to cite every last bit of literature... No chance of that happening. So I'll add my hopes to yours that someone will do it some day.Danhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10453904366382251766noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32671574.post-91349143104134499082012-04-03T11:47:02.654+03:002012-04-03T11:47:02.654+03:00"Tibetologist" wrote this —
When I was ..."Tibetologist" wrote this —<br /><br />When I was a younger man than I am now I meant to write a book where I traced the evolution of the Vajra from proto-indo-european to contemporary Tibet, with many digressions on Shingon and art history,<br />all of the different numbers of prongs it can have and what not. It is easy to imagine going about such a project, but not easy to do it. I hope someone does one day.Danhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10453904366382251766noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32671574.post-37124975748140280892012-04-03T10:17:12.775+03:002012-04-03T10:17:12.775+03:00Thanks Dan, nice start. I am sure many questions w...Thanks Dan, nice start. I am sure many questions will follow. For the moment I just wanted to share with you a deep thought I had when seeing your striding Zeus. It reminded me a lot of my wife doing her yoga, in particular the Hero pose (vīrāsana), fortunately without a vajra... But it made me wonder if there was some sort of a connection, and if her doing yoga really is that innocent.<br />Sorry for the Lieutenant Columbo style observation.<br />JoyJanushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13818341476501505611noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32671574.post-42077842951350041262012-04-02T22:56:47.827+03:002012-04-02T22:56:47.827+03:00Hi Malcolm,
I'm a little surprised you wrote ...Hi Malcolm,<br /><br />I'm a little surprised you wrote so quickly without reading all the way to the end of note no. 5! (Don't ask me why there are such long footnotes...) Anyway, I'm not finished with the subject yet. This is just the beginning. And when everything's added on and added up, it's still just a beginning.<br /><br />Yours,<br />DDanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10453904366382251766noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32671574.post-63108585094637141782012-04-02T22:02:37.532+03:002012-04-02T22:02:37.532+03:00I am suprised you didn't mention Rishi bones a...I am suprised you didn't mention Rishi bones as the material of Indra's Vajra, Dan.Malcolmhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17565211105434785983noreply@blogger.com